to hear the c.e.o.'s of some of the largest companies in america, this recovery still is not. not swinging. not moving. not worth investing. seven out of ten expect hiring in the last three months of the year to be flat or lower. all of the expiring bush tax cuts that have not been addressed by either party have not lifted their spirits higher. way beyond ohio, more signs that americans in general are behind the eight ball. today the household income dropped more than 8 percent since the president took office. the political fallout in a moment. and our guest is a market watch other on the financial fallout. if ohio is not indicative of what is going on across the country, dave, then, what is going on across the country? where are the gains there if which the president is getting

and juice, not translating? >>guest: well, i suspect that the governor of he, like a lot of the republican governors, has been hacking through some of the problems that existed in the job creation and new enterprise area and that has given the area a boost. i got back from the west coast with a bunch of chief executive officers. i have heard something over and over and over again. that is, if you make this box call a job more expensive, which is what is happening, if you jam it with more benefits and you jam it full of more workplace regulations and union friendly policies that make it more dicey for me to hire people, guess what? in a time of automation and a time of technology and easy collaboration with people in india, i will find a way to do that. i will take the least ricky -- risky path. if i go to the liquor store and

there are a thousand choices and the least expensive way to obtain something, a labor service, for example, is a box called a full-time job and you made it expensive, you have let me know i as an employer and under your watch and under your guise, i will not buy that box. i will fine another way, a smaller package, to get the labor services i need. do not look if job creation to change. i'm hearing over and over again, chief executives are saying they have found ways to do the same or more for the customers with the same number of employees with no plans to hire next year. >>neil: they always say if you are upbeat, you will be more inclined to expand your plant, hire folks. what they are telling us, the seven out of ten who are refusing to do that and have no plans to do that, echoed by the lights of caterpillar and intel and others, saying they see the

same headwinds, is that there is little reason for them to do that even in the face of what usually has been better news of late on housing, on retail sales. not great news but a friend the administration says is a "friend." but these guys are saying no, it is not and we are so convinced it isn't that we are not putting our capital to work. to have that is going on today in spain and in greece, the worst rioting yet over there, we are in a situation now where we have increased our debt per household. forget the giant trillions of dollars, in the question, are you better off today than four years ago? it is, are you bet off with 50 percent more debt on your household than four years ago. that is the huge sort of factor, the giant kind of antianimal

spirit factors versus the uptick this month, or if you correct the employment statistic, private sector jobs are up a little bit. that is the tail of the dog. >>neil: thank you. with the economy struggling which poll should you buy? swing states where the president is gaining? or the real clear politics national average showing the rights show that neither candidate has the upper hand. my guest is keeping track of this. what do we maybe of this, tom? >>guest: well, it is a mess. it is confusing. we have a variety of polls showing a variety of things. gallup is showing obama with a six-point lead. another poll from the last ten days show it is a one-point race but obama has extended the lead in thible average to four points. with the latest round swing

state polling it looks like the race has tipped in his direction for the time being. >>neil: could we have a split view of this, a 2000 deal where the popular vote going one way, and that is tight. again, this depends on the poll. the swing state polls, then, not nearly so tight, for now? i stress, for now. could you see that as a possibility? >>guest: not at the moment. look, that is always a possible. if the race -- it is the fundamental of this race that are reasserted and it tightens to the end which most people expect it to do, we could see a lot the swing states getting in position where you can create scenarios where you can end up with an electoral tie or something very close along those lines. right now, though, for the moment, the race looks like mitt romney is slipping and obama is in front. >>neil: i was talking about an easy electoral win to the president if you buy the polls,

and i don't, but the popular vote is tight. on to what is happening in the swing states, republican governors like to point out and we will elaborate on that, wait a minute. we are running these states, you are seeing the improvements in a last them because republican governors are exacting the changes. what do you say do that? >>guest: it complicates mitt romney's tack. he is trying to make the case that obama is not good for the economy and we are worse off than four years ago but in a lot of states, in florida rick scott and in ohio, john kasich, they have unemployment rates under the national average. romney has had his message undercut. >>neil: where does that come? when times are good the incumbent benefits and the times are bad, he doesn't. the governor is not

inconsequential although he or should be in the scheme of things, if they are not up for election, the attention goes to the incumbent and he gets the credit. is that right? >>guest: this is part of what is going on here. mitt romney is trying to run a national race and trying to make the broader argument and obama's team has been smart in targeting the specific swing states and pounding romney in ads. so far he has been burying romney in negative ads. look at ohio. you talk about the auto bailout. that has been something that obama has done relentlessly in his favor. that is one thing, a dynamic of the race, you think that an incumbent president should be losing, but you have a challenger in mitt romney would has not made the case or connected with the voters especially in the states we are talking about. >>neil: very early. we will see. thank you very much. >> president obama still making the receipted attack on mitt romney today in ohio today.

>> he says he will take the fight to them and go after the cheaters. i have to admit, that message is bet other than what he has actually done about this thing. it sounds better than talking about all the years he spent profiting from companies that sent our jobs to china. >>neil: here is what we have to look at. what about the white house benefiting from china like the $1.8 billion in stimulus dollars used in part to buy solar panels from florida or $2.5 billion in stimulus that went to a texas consortium that, indeed, purchased wind turbines from china. or the $39 million in tax credit that went to a north carolina company that makes energy efficient lighting. that is all guy but you realize we it opened an l.e.d. light

manufacturing plant in china. what do you make of that? >>guest: it is really unseemly for the president to engage in protectionist rhetoric when you consider that a fourth of our exports from america are associated with the overseas investment of american taxpayers. we also get trillions of foreign investment in the united states that supports millions of jobs. this is something we should be welcoming except, and this is the key, what mitt romney does with his money is his business. what obama does with our money is all of our business. the fact that we squandered billions on a stimulus that didn't work and the tact that some of it went to china, i don't think the fact it went to china is nearly as important as we flushed a trillion dollars down the drain and made our economy worse by making government bigger.

>>neil: i have in problem with the multinational nature our company, our country and companies, doing business with china, getting money from china, we invest back-and-forth, but you can't be against that in your speeches and not realize you are doing that in reality or condemn your opponent for practicing that and risk seeing a loss of that and not profiting. >>guest: it is not just hypocrisy. you are right on that. it is corruption. you better believe that the different firms, is as the solyndra types and big donors, the unholy alliance who get the fake stimulus money, who then wind up sending some of it outside of the country but as both of us realize, that is not the problem. it is government spending the dollars, that is how you get

misallocation, economic weakness. you were talking early in the show about the troubles in greece and spain. do we want to repeat that by continuing to make government bigger in the united states in that's what really should be the debate. thought by whether a private individual happens to have some investments overseas as part of normal diversification. >>neil: you should not go into this automatically saying, we have to build the competitive industry supported by government to take the business away from china doing the same, knowing full well what you end up doing is doing business with china, doing exactly that. it always boomerangs on you. >>guest: if the president would assembly say, our corporate tax rate, including state corporate taxes is 40 percent, which is about 15 percent to 17 percent higher than the global average, fix that. then i would clap and applaud. but obama is not doing that. he has the class warfare agenda. that will make it harder to get

the investment to make america more competitive. >>neil: get ready. he is back. only weeks after the one-on-one talk that had competitors shaking in their boots, ryan is dying for more of my questions even after this memorable exchange. >> congress ma, how did it go? how did it go? you got a good feel for things if ready if tonight? how long will the speech be in you saw the bonding. you want more in paul ryan is back. not just in some hall way behind a stage. i'm talking in a chair. on this show. getting to the bottom of the issues at the top of the hour tomorrow. you saw how i shook the political world the last time i chatted and the nervous wave from mr. ryan. i have a feeling we will be at it again this time when we make history. ♪

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>>neil: more backlash after protests in greece and spain. my next guest says this will not be just there, if we do not start our own budget cuts. man say this could never, ever, ever happen here, we are too arrogant to think it can't. explain that. >>guest: we have a big problem coming up. we will see that problem hit us square in the face on january 1 when we are thrown into the fiscal abyss. the national association of manufacturers did a poll that asked small businesses and small

manufacturers what their biggest concerns were. spending topped that list. not necessarily spending that you see across the board but a concern that congress has not done its job and prioritized appropriately when it comes to our spending. >>neil: what is what i don't understand. we have chatted about this before, this notion that what is going on in washington would affect a guy in a medium sized company or a larger company from committing more capital to expanding a plan or hiring folks when washington is always a job. they will do something to avoid the traithey will punt or keep g for another few months or wait until, you know, the winter to tackle these details. they always do something lame like that. this appears to be different to time. why? >>guest: it does. no one wants america to fail. everyone wants america to succeed. if you hook at our poll results

and you ask business owners and manufacturers how they feel about the direction of the country, it is becoming very apparent that the american dream is becoming a nightmare. it is because of taxes, it is because of regulatory policy and energy policy and because of how washington is or in most cases is not, doing its job when it comes to the federal budget. >>neil: when you see, and your members see the consumer confidence surveys which are up a little bit, that seems to be opposed to your survey, the folks who hire those folks, when your boss isn't feeling as upbeat as you are, that would worry me. >>guest: well, what we are hearing from manufacturers all across the country, more of a sense of pessimism in this quarter than previously this year. again, it is because they don't know what going to happen on the tax front. two-thirds of manufacturers pay taxes at individual tax rate so

when you have a politician in washington demonizing success and castigating those who create jobs and insitting they pay more taxes, those individuals have to say, well, i need to figure out what will happen to me next year before i can make any commitment to invest in america and create jobs here. the same is true on the regulatory front. >>neil: do you think the message of these republican-run states where they have cut taxes and or regulations, is that resonating on the white house? do are your members think that is going to resonate? >>guest: it is hard to say what will resonate with the white house, regardless of who is in it. i can tell you from experience what works. i was fortunate enough to be chief of staff to a governor who understood how to create jobs. back in the 1990's when george allen was governor of virginia, he lowered taxes for business.

he reduced the regulatory burden. we saw an influx of investment in virginia and a creation of jobs. the same is true for another governor i worked for after he was governor, john engler in michigan. >>neil: another governor who could agree with that, scott walker. americans are always ready to work hard for a better future. since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪

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them, because i wasn't with the governor of washington state, but the rest of them thought i got a bum deal with the parkers. watching the game as a packer fan, i was upset but anyone outside of the diehards seahawk fan knew it was a mess, having two boys that play football that i watched with on sunday, there were a last other problems. it was the last straw when it cost a team a game. >>neil: many in the union movement have seized upon your remarks, governor, to say that, really, what is the difference between backing the referee union and unions in general? "union members have huge value and scott walker and others would be well to remember that the nbc time they treat union members different from union referees who are all cut from

the sail cloth." what do you say? >>guest: that is ridiculous. i'm people ro taxpayer, not anti-union. in wisconsin we wanted to put the power in the hands of the hard working taxpayers. but the union bosses like the one you quote are taking the power away from the taxpayer which is like not what is happening in the nfl. i don't care if the re fs are union or nonunion. it is obvious they just are not equipped. i don't care if they are union or nonunion. we need the refs to get back. >>neil: it unites you with some democrats in the state and representative whose fought you

tooth and nail in your election, sir, but, obviously, in the recall that you won. i do want to switch gears, governor, on the recall because i remember going that weekend before the recall election, the presidents show you dead even. man said it would be an uphill battle to survive. you won comfortably, by five or six points. it made me wonder, as i do now, should we trust the presidents that show the president, expanding his lead not only in your state but neighboring states and maybe he wins in the swing states in a walk. that this is beyond just a margin of error that could be blamed for underpolling conservatives and the like. what do you think? >>guest: i think it is very close in wisconsin and iowa and ohio. what you just referenced, i ended up winning by almost seven points, even the night of the

election, the networks had it dead even but we won by 205,000 votes. >>neil: i remember well. do you think the polls as we know them, maybe not deliberately or by design, the way though are constructed understate or undercount sentiment. >>guest: i was surprised the next day, one of the other networks, one of the commentators, said maybe there is a certain reason, he did not suggest bias but just saying in the exit pollses sometimes people are more right of center conservative. voters are reluctant to talk to the media, period, and they underrepresent this. >>neil: are we beyond that margin of error given the fact that the double digit lead in ohio whether you believe it offer not, say, six or seven points is not to be believed, is it still tight? >>guest: i think it is tight.

the swing or undecided voters will look very closely at the debates. on one hand this is a clear indictment that things are thought working right now. 43 months unemployment above 8 percent and 23 million fellow americans looking if work today, obviously it is a huge problem. the indictment is this and the question is, can governor romney make a compelling case, and i believe he can, that he is the guy that can fix it. you look at his record and his back ground, the debate he will have to make the case that he is the guy that has the resume to do it and the passion and the desire to do it. he does. when he makes that case, he will tighten up the race. it will be extremely close. >>neil: the president believes the attack if libya was terrorism, why didn't he say it? why doesn't he say it? does your phone give you all day battery life ?

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>>neil: the president is declining to use the word "terror" but today the white house confirming it is the official view of the white house that deadly assault on our libyan embassy was just that, a terror attack. even the president libya expressing doubt that it had nothing to do with the anti-islam film.

why is this good for the white house or good for the leader of white house but it is not good for the president of the united states? what do you mean? >>guest: well, neil, if you recall, when all the news broke, the establishment media jumped on mitt romney. the white house, in fact, went into a panic because they realized immediately that if this was presented to the american people as what it was, an obviously planned terrorist attack on the 11 the anniversary of the september 11th, 2001, attacks, suddenly obama looks like he screwed up. he did. the state department and the administration let down their guard on september of all days. the response was to blame it on the video which was useful to get people to cover the operation. blame it on the video.

do not mention the word "december report." insist it wasn't pre-planned. anyone can tell you there were serious ambushes and attacks and obviously heavy weapons. it was obviously pre-planned. >>neil: enough pre-planned for the ambassador himself to worry if his diary for his own safety and the growing dangers around him. can we get our hands on cables to the state department that might haved of that or confirmed that? obviously, he was worried. >>guest: we can get our hands on the cables. after the election. this administration does not have a classic foreign policy or security or military policy or even domestic policy. everything is politics.

rebound doesn't have a national security council, he has a poe lit bureau. everything is seen through the political lens. the president of libya was absolutely right. this was a pre-planned terror attack. he wants to fess up to the truth because his problem is the republican gate militias. he wants to crackdown. it is in his interest to tell the truth. he can go back to the white house, if you recall, jake carney, claiming we knew better what was happening in libya than the libyan president. having been an intelligence officer, for 22 year years, that is hogwash. >>neil: the more this runs up, the more the president can pass the buck. some say he just did it again today. cleverly. but how am i going to fund it?

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>>neil: a lot of people call you in with all kinds of excuses, including third marriage, but you have to stop them. you take the line that that is the past. then it is silent. are we at that point with this president? most americans have concluded, yes, you took on a lot. you did have a mess coming in. but, enough. enough. >>guest: he make as valid point if that article that the recession caused the total

income of the government to be dude which added to the debt. >>neil: but it wasn't the bush tax cuts that did it. >>guest: as a president he did not get us out of the recession. the economy was not stimulated. if the economy was stimulated under the obama presidency, the debt would have been less. if he cut the spenting, it would be less. so he has to take responsibility for what is under his want. if you are the c.e.o. of a company that is run this way we would fire your butt. >>neil: a lot people will hang up on you when you tell them the truth that it is up to you. if voters do not hang up on the president, we will keep accepting this, do they, and it could be with any politician, do they invite more of this to happen? >>guest: we have to as an american people in our personal likes, demand accountability. we have to, of our politicians,

demand accountability whether they are republican or democrat. can you not run on "hope and change" twice. it is over. >>neil: thank you dave ramsey. one of "the five" joins me now and taking this issue up in 17 or 18 minutes. daydana when you hear that in pt or a broadcast interview, your boss, the bain -- bane of all our existence, what do you say? >>guest: it is interesting that a president who ran on "hope and change" and the campaign slogan is "forward" he is looking backward. he wrote do favors if he told us how he planned to help get us back to fiscal sanity in the next four years. he spends so were time on the blame game, coming up, you will not believe this, we commissioned a poll at "the

five" and we found out 100 percent of the people blame president bush for 100 percent of their problems. an amazing problem. never seen results like this. >>neil: the poll is from who? >>guest: the beckel institute. they are very reliable sources. we use them often here on "the five." >>neil: i look forward to this. i find it curious regardless of your thoughts on whether your boss got a bum rap and still does, whether the president is going too far or not far enough, he is leading in the swing state polls and i know and you remind me and viewers remind me, these are snapshots of the molt they are what they are. he seems to be dodging the bullet. >>guest: the polls are questionable. i looked at the weekly standards and this does not explain the

underlying anxieties of people on this issue. the romney campaign is not going to tell you they leading in those states. they think their polls are probably closer than some of the polls that come out. we have a debate coming up a week from tonight. the first presidential debate. from there, the scapegoating of the previous administrations will probably have to start end as they, the candidates, talk about where they would take the country in the future. >>neil: look forward to it. thank you very much. >>guest: an honor. >>neil: guess who more people listened to at the united nations today? iran's president need? or america's mayor outside? rudy is next.

>>neil: who would you rather listen to? america's mayor? or the world's maniac? new yorkers chose rudy over looney ignoring mahmoud ahmadinejad's blasting jews on the most holy days inside the u.n. and listening to the guy outside the u.n. with a rally. you got the knowledge in applause. >>guest: i hope. >>neil: but it is amazing how rationale thinking human beings can hear this nonsense that ahmadinejad was saying. >>guest: it is the u.n. what you have standing up there is a mass murderer. a maniac.

a guy would has vowed the destruction of the state of israel. a holocaust. and a 9/11 conspirator, the idea that 9/11 really happen because of israel, because of george bush or because of other insane ideas. here is the real question. would you want nuclear weapons in this man's hands? under president obama, that is directly where we are going. since president obama has been in office, iran has enriched uranium three times more. they getting close to having nuclear material. that, to me, is a red lie, having nuclear material. >>neil: do you think they already have it? >>guest: could be. i don't have the classified information. i would not want to bet my life on the fact they don't have it. here is the risk of their having it. forget the missiles. handing it off to the terrorist groups they are presently supplying today. they are in communication with 20 do 30 terrorist groups. they give them all kinds of

ammunition and weapons. if they had nuclear material they could hand it to a terrorist. necessity -- they were going to kill the saudi ambassador in washington. they lied their way out of it. president obama is approach that leads behind. he would have to have proof, by now, they were responsible. >>neil: much has been made with the president not meeting with world leaders when he was in town and go on "the view." >>guest: he is not a president but a candidate. the world is in turmoil right now. american ambassador killed for the first time since jimmy carter. two seals and another diplomat killed. people being killed in syria each day in large numbers. american soldiers still being killed in afghanistan without much of a plan on how to figure out how to get out of afghanistan without more damage. i can go on and on and on.

china challenged us militarily, announcing they will build an aircraft carrier. obama reset the relationship with russia. and made it were, much worse. we are trying to get russia to help with iran and help with syria, and they telling us to go to hell. the world is in turmoil and the president is campaigning. the president is not meeting world leaders with whom you have to have a close, personal relationship. you have to sit down with netanyahu, face to face and discuss a serious question. not making fun of romney, but a serious question. that is, when do you we strike? with strikes? what is the red line test? they have to have one between the two of them. even if they don't tell it it to us they is to deliver it to iran, let iran know there is the line. we will have a massive attack. >>neil: what do you make of the polls with all of that? >>guest: i think those polls are off by a lot.

>>neil: say the margin of error, it could be beyond that margin of error. >>guest: i think the presidents are a question of what is the sample they are using? is it a 2008 model? is it a 2010 model in this situation? are they modeling on 2010, romney will win. >>neil: you think it is closer than it appears. >>guest: i do. do i think obama has a lead? yes. all of us in the romney campaign better take that seriously. he has a lead, even worse, in the key swing states. by no means is it insurmountable. you have two big events coming up: the debates and the turmoil in the middle east. when you see it you get a sense that obama's policies in the middle east have been a disaster. >>neil: i will put you down as a "no" on the president. always a pleasure, mayor. in the mean time, is the grand old party in a funk in the swing states because the grand ode

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liberty mutual insurance policies come standard with accident forgiveness, if you qualify. learn more at libertymutual.com. >> neil: does mitt romney risk losing because republican governors are winning? you do have to wonder. because the wondrous thing about the swing state polls or not so wondrous if you're mitt romney is they are all run by republican governors. it's true. in ohio, in part, wisconsin, virginia, in michigan, all the states where the president has been gaining, republican governors are performing, getting double-digit unemployment rates down and more business folks in. each of them has seen improvements that are disproportion nate to those across the country. much better than other states across the country, which could explain why romney is tied with the president in the

national polls but trailing in the crucial swing state poll. republican governors turned things arp and near as i can tell, the polls appear to be giving barack obama the credit. i'm not here to say that the president doesn't deserve some credit or mitt romney deserves all the benefit. i am saying a political truism still stands. the incumbent benefits when times are good and takes a hit when times are bad. not the incumbent governor. which maybe come osplay when he or she is running but not this year when they're not. no. the president is running right now. running ironically on the performance of all the republican governors right now. the beneficiary of the policy he has been against for a long time now, lower taxes, fewer regulation an anti-federal healthcare as you could get. the policy have the states coming and mitt romney must be shaking his head at this president just gaining. see that exchange. in the most electorate rich

state, this is the state of them. expanding business, defines everything that the president preaches you have to do to improve this. it's romney getting the business. if the polls hold up, mitt romney potentially getting the shaft. i don't think things are that simple or they work out that way, ask yourself this when you look at electoral map. how is that a race decided across the country is showing something different across the republican-run state, states that are beating the national average. jobs gained, businesses charged and volt voters. they say it's testment to what happens when you put republican in charge of the state. wouldn't it be a pit if it means democrats staying in charge of the country? e-mails are pouring in fast and furious. people just can't believe the impact that my one-on-one with paul ryan at the republican convention had on the presidential race.

i got us here. life as we know it has never been the same. a lot more change to come. guess who is back. paul ryan part duex tomorrow. 4:00 p.m. on fox. only fox. because we move the world. that is why they call it "your world." see you tomorrow. >> greg: hello, i'm the jim dandy eye candy, greg gutfeld. she is so hot, the sun blisters. kimberly guilfoyle. gem of the dems, bob beckel. bronze bomber eric bolling. she gets to work on chauffeur-driven rainbow. it's dana perino. 5:00 in new york city. this is "the five." let's do this, america. ♪ ♪ some folks think pollsters are rigging results targeting democrats. not me, i see nothing unbalanced about npr taking poll